From: Ron Turner
Date: August 29, 2015
Subject: Detachments - Antenna Location

Frank,

Siting broadcast radio antennas. You can put FM antennas about anywhere with ok results, but AM antennas require a fair amount of level land especially if you are going to put in a directional array. The installation is expensive and requires a pretty massive effort (to include substantial engineering) at one point in time. Moreover, generally speaking, you cannot locate a high power AM transmitter in the immediate area of a studio. Sometimes its done, but never well (Qui Nhon?).
A major second problem in siting an AM transmitter at Monkey Mountain is the proximaty of the ICS facility just a little ways from AFVN. While broadcast radio is important, the ICS system in Vietnam was critical to about all operations - an AM broadcast antenna in the neighborhood would have been highly degrading to the integrated communications system (maintained by Federal Electric Corp for the 1st Sig Bde at the time Red Beach folded) and would not have been allowed.
To illustrate: the reason that Nha Thrang did not get a relocated FM station (even though low power and low interference) in 1971 was basically because of "possible" interference with CORDS operational radio traffic.

Regards,

Ron T.

From: Steve Starnes

Date: August 29, 2015

Subject: Detachment 4

Hello all again.

In a search for information on my father's Vietnam service, I found a reference to Detachment 4B. Does the "B" mean anything to anyone? Were the Detachments split up into smaller groups? Also, I do not see on any posted rosters the following name Bob L. Anderson, who is listed as my dad's NCOIC on a record. Does anyone have anything on this gentleman?

Steve

From: Jim Allingham

Date: August 28, 2015

Subject: Detachment 4

Jim,

In 1969-1970, the Detachment 4 TV and FM radio operations were both on Hon Tre Island, about two-thirds the way up the mountain on the island and part of the compound that was the Army's 228th Signal Company. There were small detachments of ARVN's and ROK's up there with us. The Air Force had a radar site on top of the mountain; the Army's 5th Special Forces were near the bottom of the mountain, not far from the LZ where the boats would arrive and depart. As I recall, the AM radio signal came straight from Saigon with a booster somewhere between Nha Trang and Phan Rang. I believe that booster location was staffed by a couple of our guys from Det. 4 but I never met them. Hope this helps.
SP5 Jim Allingham

AFVN News Saigon/Hon Tre Island
1969-70

From: Jim White

Date: August 29, 2015

Subject: Detachment 4

Steve,
You are right, there is no Bob L. Anderson on the AFVN Roster. However, I can not guarantee that the roster is 100% accurate or complete.
Referring to the copy of the label you sent, according to http://1stmob.com/APO_Location_1.html, APO 96377 was for Cam Ranh Bay. Nha Trang had a separate APO (96350) but evidently Hon Tre Island did not have an APO. According to Google Earth, Cam Ranh Bay is about 20 miles south of Nha Trang and Hon Tre Island. For your information, I think that APO stands for "Army Post Office" (The Navy has its own system of Fleet or FPO numbers.

See https://stamps.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/774/~/overseas-military-mail-%28the-apo%2Ffpo-system%29) The Army and the Air Force share the same APO system because I am fairly sure the system started during WW2 or before when the Army Air Corps was under the Army. The '96' means that it is an APO out of San Francisco (i.e., in the Pacific area). The APO system definitely predates the ZIP code system. (However many of the APO numbers were only 2 or 3 digits until the ZIP code unified everything to five digits.)

Noticed that the label you sent appears to also include your father's Army Serial (Social Security) Number. Someone was being extra careful to get the mail to the right person and today including one's name and full Social Security Number on a label that way would really be a major breach of personal security.
More than one detachment was divided into a "radio" location and a "TV" location. This was because the TV antenna had to be as high as possible in order to reach a large number of troops. This included sometimes putting the TV antenna and studio on a mountain infested with Viet Cong. The radio antenna, however, did not have to be that high so the radio detachment might have been located in an area where there were more U.S. troops (and security). I don't recall any of these divided detachments being called "A" or "B" or whatever, but it is entirely possible. Which was which is beyond me. Unfortunately, Det 4 is one of the detachments for which my information is rather minimal.
Hope that this helps, even if just a little. Maybe some of those on the Yahoo Group who were at Nha Trang / Hon Tre / Cam Ranh Bay in 1969/70 can help (AND GIVE ME MORE INFORMATION FOR POSTING ON OUR WEBSITE!).

From: Steve Starnes

Date: August 29, 2015

Subject: Detachment 4

It is helping fill in the blanks for me for sure.

Thanks,

Steve

From: Jim White
Date: October 10, 2015
Subject: Paul Starnes Photo

Steve,
It takes a lot more than that to make me feel slighted. Mainly I was curious of Rick had had the photos all along or you had passed them on to him. The staff at 4B (Dong Ba Thin?) would have been very small and I can not assure you that they are members of the AFVN group. Chancs may be slim but, no harm in trying. Will take more photos but perhaps (to cut down my work load) you should select the "less than 100 best."
If you can get the digitized version on YouTube, send me the link so I can add it to the site.
Jim W

From: Steve Starnes
Date: August 30, 2015
Subject: Detachments - Antenna Location

Frank,

So did AFVN operate on AM or FM or both? Am I understanding correctly that the Antenna stations were not located with the transmitters stations and the broadcast stations were at separate locations as well? In trying to piece together what my dad did and was, I recall he said that the location of his antenna was about the safest place in his compound because the B.C. [V.C.] didn't want to hit it. He said they would use it as their aim point for mortar to hit other points of interest. Of course reading some of his documentation, it would appear he was kept busy enough repairing power to the station and I just recently came across an account of him having to go to Cam Ranh Bay to repair a tower.
It seems like the Network was a pretty complex system...far more complex than anything I have seen in my Comm career with the exception of our Satellite Nodal networks....but it seems that this system works off the same concept. ( If the B.C. [V.C.] takes down one transmitter, the net still functions with minimal service loss? )

I may be wrong, but I think that the buildings higher up the hill may be AFVN Det 4. And the slanting roof may be a "sun cover" for the van.

Jim W

From: Steve Starnes
Date: October 11, 2015
Subject: Paul Starnes Photo

That is what I am coming to realize. It appears that the 4B station was low staffed, letters make it appear they were under supported as well. I am thinking that linking up with any of his team is something that may not happen. But no, Rick doesn't have even a full 1% of Dad's photo collection. The are volumes of photos. He only has enough to make his story. I think his story goes to Air this week. From there I feel comfortable to release all that I have. I am looking forward to seeing what he has produced. He held back some of the key finds in dad's collection even from me to keep from spoiling the surprise. But it sounds like he found some good stuff on dad's tapes. I am kind of excited to think that I may be able to hand over to AFVN a piece of history not already on file.

From: Jim White
Date: August 30, 2015
Subject: Detachments - Antenna Location

Steve,
First of all, they were VC (Viet Cong), not BC--but it is an interesting error.
  Most of the AFVN detachments had AM, FM and TV. Go to AFVNVets.net / AFVN Organization and then click on the various detachment links.  Some stations were relatively compact (i.e., studios and towers not all that far apart) while others were rather scattered.  The towers did make good aiming stakes for Viet Cong mortars which is one reason most of the troops didn't want to have a tower too close to them. Also, the towers couldn't be too close to airfields for obvious reasons. AFVN was a fairly complex network but it was not the same as the Satellite Nodal network system. Numerous detachments were necessary in order to get broadcast signals to as many troops as possible and Vietnam is a rather mountainous country.   The only thing that might have resembled a Satellite Nodal network was that the Da Nang Detachment was set up as an "alternate" to the Saigon Station in case it was ever destroyed. Fortunately, while a number of car bombs, etc., did damage the main Saigon Station at times over the years, I don't think that it was ever off the air for any real length of time. Another "back-up" system was that if the AM radio in Saigon ever went down, the Vung Tao tower complex also had an automatic "continue on the air" capability.
  AM and perhaps FM were actually networked. I.E., programs from the Saigon Station could be sent to the detachments by radio signals. TV, however, was "bicycled" around to the various detachments either on 2-iinch videotape for those detachments that had that capability or as kinescopes (16mm film) to those that didn't have a videotape capability.
  In case you don't know what "bicycled" means. A week's worth of program were sent as a packet as videotapes or kinescopes to one detachment, and then they after that detachment had used them, the package of programs would be sent on to another detachment, with the final detachment sending everything back to Saigon. The actual "mode of transportation" was normally by air. "Bicycling" through Viet Cong territory would be rather hazardous to one's health.
Jim W
PS: In reference to Frank's comment that "I'm sure the laundry women would have been more help in any attack." He is right! If they didn't show up for work, then break out the ammo and get ready for an attack. I felt very much the same way about the South Vietnamese Policeman we had guarding the front gate to the Saigon Station in early 1971. He was a good "early warning system" and I would check once in a while to be sure he was still there. If he wasn't, then it would have been time to put the station on alert.

Audio Letters from Vietnam War

The Story of Paul Starnes' audio letters to his sweetheart and bride-to-be.

By Rick Fredericksen and John Pemble

October 13, 2015

Iowa Public Radio

(Story, Photos and Audio)

From: Ann Kelsey

Date: October 14, 2015

Subject: AFVN (Dong Ba Thin) Recordings

What a great story. I had no idea there was an AFVN broadcast operation in Dong Ba Thin. I was in charge of the Special Services Library at 18th Engineer Brigade HQ in Dong Ba Thin from October 69-August 70. That library also had a tape library that recorded what we would now call mix tapes on reel to reel tape for soldiers who picked the albums they wanted from the library's vinyl library, completely illegal now of course. I still have the tapes I had made there. I shut down the library in April 1970 when 18th Engineers were deployed to Cambodia. I must have listened to Paul Starnes every day and had no idea he was broadcasting from DBT.

From: Jim Allingham

Date: August 31, 2015

Subject: Detachment 4

Steve,
Maybe these 3 photos will help a bit. There are poor quality, but they are also 45 years old! The 1st photo shows the entrance to our studios (the TV control truck is on the right) and our antenna for both TV and FM radio is in front. The next 2 photos show our tower as compared to the 2 huge towers used by the 228th Signal Company (we were guests on their compound, as our CO continuously reminded us).
Wish I had better stuff, but these are the only shots I had of the antenna.
Best regards,
Jim Allingham
1969-70

Some comments on the above program.

From: Jim White

Date: August 29, 2015

Subject: Detachment 4

Steve,
With apologies, many of our detachments were "way off base" also, i.e., out away from anything else and sometimes with minimal security.
Jim W

Photos and Stories - N to Z

I don't know if this data helps in dialing in his location, but apparently this was his mailing address. I must admit, these smaller tapes he sent to his then girlfriend/fiance (Mom) may contain more than even I wish to know. But the curious son knows that there is only one way to find out. Ha!

Steve Starnes

Individual Photo Albums & Stories

Paul W. Starnes SP5, USA - Page 2

Cam Ranh Bay / Hon Tre 1969-70

This is less a story about Paul than it about his son, Steven Paul Starnes

and his search to learn more about his father's service in Vietnam.

From: Steve Starnes
Date: October 4, 2015
Subject: Paul Starnes Photo

[NB: I had written Steve about Rick Fredericksen getting a photo of Paul Starnes before I did. Jim W]

Jim,

          I am sorry if you felt slighted. I/We fully intend to actually release to you guys any and all of what I have. But I made an agreement with Rick especially since he has helped in getting dad's tapes transferred to digital that if there was a story that could be written that I would give him the chance to write it. Now that he has found a story to write, he has asked me to hold off on sharing anything until the story goes to Air.
          I assure you, I want you to have everything you guys want for your archives. I also want this story for Dad, you guys and my family. But mostly, I am hoping that all this puts me in contact with guys from 4B so I can learn more.
          You have my word that I have these photos on file ready to send to you. I also have access to much more that even Rick doesn't have that I can share as well.
Respectfully Yours,

Steve

Go to Page 1

Photos and Stories - A to M

From: Rick Fredericksen

Date: October 14, 2015

Subject: AFVN (Dong Ba Thin) Recordings

Ann,

Paul was also the station's chief engineer so it is not clear how often he was on the air, but he had his own program for at least part of his tour. He was in Vietnam about the same time as you, Sept. 69 to Sept. 70. His AM station would have carried the newscasts from Saigon, so I was undoubtedly on this little signal as well, as I overlapped with Paul about 6 months. Steven's original 1-hour air check also contains some other AFVN voices--including a partial newscast, although the newscaster was not identified (and was cut short at the end of the tape). Also a great promo for a new show they were introducing that week (June 1970) called Soul 70, hosted by Army Sgt. Bob Anderson. Perhaps we can get these posted somehow.
Rick

From: Frank Rogers
Date: August 28, 2015
Subject: Detachments - Antenna Location

Jim,
AFVN Da Nang's TV was on Monkey Mountain, while the radio antenna was down on Red Beach. That was OK for the radio engineers as long as the US Marines were there, but after they "retrograded" the "security" was ARVN. I don't know why the radio equipment was not moved up to the mountainside, because the ARVN did not do anything. When I went down, they were either sleeping or "took their own time" to come and open up the gate. I'm sure the laundry women would have been more help in any attack.
Frank

From: Steve Starnes

Date: August 29, 2015

Subject: Detachment 4

Very informative. I am certainly getting a much more accurate mental picture of how you guys were laid out and operated. My original mental picture was way off base.

Slide Show
6 Photos

Start the slide show and then click on the buttons on the right side of the photos as desired. The photos do not move automatically.

Click Here to Start

Go to Page 1

From: Jim Allingham

Date: August 29, 2015

Subject: Detachment 4

Steve,

I was the TV news anchor at Det 4 and SP4 Barry Brower was my sportscaster. Barry has some great photos on his personal website:

www.barrybrower.org/photo-gallery.html

The Hon Tre Island photos start on page 2 of his "Historical: Vietnam 1969-70" photo album on his website. Enjoy...Barry got some great shots...it'll give you an idea of our living and working conditions.
Best regards,

Jim

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